This transcript of the panel, “Is OTT the New Black” is from our 2016 LDV Vision Summit. Moderator: Rebecca Paoletti, CEO of Cakeworks featuring: Ed Laczynski, CEO of Zype; Patricia Hadden, SVP NBCUniversal; Steve Davis, VP & GM East of Ooyala.

Rebecca: Just to start off, if you guys could each give one sentence about what your company does and one sentence about what you do at your company. You can start, Ed.

Ed: Sure. Hi, I'm Ed Laczynski. I am CEO and founder of Zype. We are a direct to consumer video business platform, and we make it easy for content owners and brands to build and grow OTT streaming businesses.

Patricia: Hi, I'm Patricia. I work for NBC Universal. We create content. Within in NBCU, I work specifically for the digital enterprise group, and so we're responsible for creating direct to consumer SVOD services that complement the NBCU portfolio.

Steve: I'm Steve Davis. I work for Ooyala. Ooyala is a digital video platform technology company based in Silicon Valley and New York and all over the world, and power some of the largest broadcasters and operators, their entire OTT platform, which we'll talk about, I'm sure, today.

Rebecca: Yes, we will. Okay, so we've had some nice chats about “paradigm shifts.” There are lot of these shifts happening in digital, digital media, and particularly in video, especially in the last, I would say, nine to 12 months. Obviously the proliferation of technology and new devices has really changed the way consumer are dealing with video and they way advertiser and publishers are also dealing with video and the responsibilities there. Digital video companies and digital media businesses have been looking at OTT and have been asking a lot of questions about OTT.

I, personally, at my company, CakeWorks, which is a boutique digital video agency, and we sort of problem solve across the spectrum of digital video. There was this moment last July when I turned to my co-founder and I was like, "Seriously, OTT is the new black." It started because there was a week, you think it's the summer, July, people are supposed to be on vacation, we were getting overwhelming inbound questions, what is OTT? I need OTT, I'm in Hollywood, I'm building an OTT app, I have to have OTT. I'd look at my staff, and we would say, "Do they even know what OTT is? Do they know what they're asking for and what they're asking to be built?"

Before we get into OTT, this is a very acronym heavy business, digital video, we have SVOD, AVOD, OVP, CPMs, CPVs, and I'm pretty sure we're all OC about OTT, but so far as that is, let's define it, because I'm not sure that everybody in the room is particularly familiar with it, and certainly the industry that we work in actually doesn't understand quite all the way what OTT is. OTT stands for Over The Top, but would each of you like to take a one sentence on what is OTT actually?

Ed: Sure, OTT is distribution of content without a middleman.

Patricia: Yup. It is, at least in the broadcasting world, it is a being able to deliver video or content or entertainment directly to a consumer without a MSO. I'm going to throw in acronym to describe a MSO.

Rebecca: MSO, MVPD, these are the big cable operators, so the Comcast, the Time Warner Cables, the Telstras of the world.

Patricia: That's right.

Steve: Yeah, it's a disruptive shift on how to reach consumers, so just piling on what these two just said. It's another way for a consumer to get content without having to be beholden to the large cable companies.

Rebecca: This is important, because there's a whole world of people that think any app is OTT, so just because you have an app on your iPhone, that is not an OTT experience and it doesn't come with any of the issues that we are working with in the OTT space. Okay, so for you all out there, how many of you do not have cable TV at home?

Ed: I do not.

Rebecca: Well, there you go, Patricia, there's your answer. How many of you pay for Hulu? Not steal your roommates, your neighbors, pay actually for Hulu? How many of you watch Netflix more than once a month? More than once a week? How many of you have a Xbox? Roku? Apple TV? How many of you have all three?

Ed: Sorry, I'm kind of in the business.

Patricia: I was like, "That's odd."

Rebecca: Ooyala also. With these devices, do you watch TV or video on those devices at home more than once a month? Streaming video on devices more than once a week? Every day? Awesome, we have a very OTT savvy room, which is excellent. We, I think, are at the proverbial inflection point on this whole distribution of video content or do you think we're well beyond it when it comes to OTT? Steve, this is like you've been living the dream, the technology front of this.

Steve: Yeah, this is the last 18 months of life. I would start with we've come a long way in 18 months. Most of the opportunities that our company has talked to 18 months ago folks were asking us to define it for them. We need to OTT, but we're not quite sure what the hell it is, 18 months later now it's much more of I don't want to be live at apps, but can you help us describe the best approach to get an OTT offering and should we do it? Where we are now is much different than we were 18 months ago? We're at not quite the tipping point, now we're at the it's much more being adopted on a larger scale, where every single company at least is having a strategy, whether it's good or bad, is having a strategy about OTT to go to market.

Rebecca: Let's define that. Every company, meaning every media creator, publisher in possession of premium video content?

Steve: Well said. I mean broadcasters, operators, digital publishers, everyone realizes that a direct to consumer or a new way to reach that consumer is a must, they just might know the best approach to do it yet; where 18 months ago it was much more questioning, “Steve, can you guys come in and help explain what OTT is and what we should be doing.” It's gone, in 18 months. It is the fastest adoption technology I've seen, probably, in my career.

Rebecca: Patricia, from the content perspective when do you feel like you guys made this decision? Like we want to go in this direction, we kind of understand the ad model, we understand the subscription model, how did you set out to do Seeso? Actually, why don't you tell everybody what Seeso is?

Patricia: What Seeso is? Let me explain kind of the genesis of how we thought about it first. We wanted to solve a consumer problem, not a business problem, so what we were seeing is these big OTT players were really great services if you knew exactly what you wanted to watch or if you were in the middle of a binge. If you just want to watch something good, you kind of sit there and surf for 20 minutes and then you get frustrated and then you leave. The reason is because they've become this kind of supermarket of content, they have kids and horror and everything in between, and it's kind of the Costco effect. You guys have ever gone to Costco, I have three kids at home, so I go all the time, it's overwhelming. What we wanted to do is to essentially be the anti-Costco. We wanted to be the neighborhood restaurant, the neighborhood café.

Patricia: What Seeso is, it's an SVOD service, which is a subscription video on demand. It's 3.99 a month, it's ad free, and we wanted to be very, very specific and go with one niche genre, and that is comedy. We did a ton of research and we did a lot of ethnographies and realized that comedy, to Trina's earlier point, is this kind of universal language, but there isn't one place where you can find all the comedy you want. I think we have pretty good internet service here, if you guys have not subscribed yet, just feel free to go on your app and download Seeso, it's S-E-E-S-O. It has, really, there's so many kind of nuances and faucets within comedy, so we have standup and sketch and animation and scripted and by the end of the year we'll have 20 original series.

Rebecca: Thank you. Okay, so enters Ed, who has a new startup that is, I lovingly call, OTT in a box. Where did you guys start from and what problem did you think you were solving when you set out to do this?

Ed: One thing that resonated with me from Trina's presentation was the idea of this identity crisis in video and I kind of think that-

Rebecca: We actually saw that slide, right?

Ed: Yeah, before the click fast forward, and I thought about that in relationship to what the industry is going through now and it's kind a way to answer your question. I think that there is sort of an identity crisis as content owners are trying to figure out are they direct to consumer businesses, are they simply content owners that are part of an existing supply chain and continue to do business that way. In those traditional ways, and for us, at Zype, we saw a confluence of market changes. There was the availability of bandwidth, availability of devices, the consumers had all these devices in their hands and in their homes, and the advent of cloud computing - that's a technology for developers like us. That we can scale up a business that traditionally would require a tremendous amount of capital to deliver a service to a customer became available to us in the last five years.

Rebecca: It seems like forever.

Ed: Yeah.

Rebecca: I mean just to put it in context, because we've been looking at so many amazing technological advances in the past day here, and this morning especially, I think just the reality for us living in old, traditional media land is that these things have happened really slowly. I mean Evan can tell you that I've been saying this is the year of digital video since about '97, so this is the year it's really happening. I think with these devices, you really can do almost anything you want to from your living room remote or from your phone, it's changed the game for everybody.

Ed: Yeah, exactly. For us, we wanted to build a service that was really easy for business people to use. Content owners that are business people or technologists that need to meet performance goals, we did not want them to have to worry about the assembly as much as the outcomes. We focused our product that way and saw that demand in OTT, particularly over the last 18 months it's been the number one inbound driver for us. We do a lot of online marketing, a lot of content marketing, and we have people coming into Zype.com every day who own content and want to sign up for our service. 90% of them are looking for OTT solutions one way or another, whether it's Apple TV or Roku, whether it's a native mobile experience, but delivered with subscription or transactional video, it's what's driving our business.

Rebecca: Which is great.

Ed: Which is great. We love it.

Rebecca: It's growing fast, which we love. In this world of so much content out there and obviously everybody here who's accessing all these apps constantly in their living room. There was just a piece in Vulture called "The Business of Too Much TV," it was like a couple of weeks ago it came out, and the data point they had in there was between 2009 and 2015 the number of scripted shows (TV-like content) has nearly doubled from just over 200 to 409 last year.

Netflix alone says it will produce 600 hours of original television, which they're probably going to go over, and spend five billion on programming, including acquisition. There's so much content being created, let alone all the YouTube influencers and rising Facebook Live stars, which we're going to be talking about after today. How much TV is enough? When do you feel like your OTT apps are what you guys are empowering and Patricia's creating, when does it become too much? When does the consumer decide they just can't watch it all?

Ed: We know with cord cutting trends there's $1,500 per year of consumer wallet up for grabs for services and you're going to spend half of that for your internet access. So you figure about $750 worth of content, that's what's available.

There is sort of a wallet share, and I think we should look at that for a sense of how much can a consumer spend or the supply chain through advertising afford to create. Apparently it hasn't been enough yet.

I don't think it's necessarily too much TV, I think there's just an endless appetite for premium content...There's no excuse to watch bad TV.

-Patricia Hadden, SVP of NBCUniversal

Rebecca: Not enough?

Patricia: Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily too much TV, I think there's just an endless appetite for premium content. I think it's more about how do we package and deliver it in a way that's convenient for the user. There's no excuse to watch bad TV these days, right? You can watch only what you want to watch and so TV's just part of our social fabric and I think if you go onto any social platform you'll see the conversations are typically around TV - except for now, they're political, because that's entertaining. Again, I think it goes back to who are the platform that are able to package and deliver them in a way that's convenient and that provides a little bit more choice for the user. I think Amazon's doing this incredibly well, because not only can you stream through Amazon, but they have these kind of add on subscriptions or niche genre services.

Now you can stream your videos, but then they have these add-on subscriptions, which are very specific to genres or to your individual tastes. While the audience is way more fragmented, they're also incredibly specific in what they want to watch and so you can see these kind of small, niche services or add-on subscriptions start to emerge that really speak to your individual tastes.

Steve: Yeah, I would just add - what we're seeing in the market is there is a proliferation of tons of content. I always get the question from the wife, “why do we have 863 channels when you watch eight?” She's right, but a lot of guys who want to watch sports don't want to give up ESPN and that's the big gorilla. That's our customer, ESPN thinks “we make a ton of money from the cable companies” and when they do the math, it just doesn't add up.

One thing that we try to help our customers with is using analytics to cut through what your consumers actually want to watch. When I get my subscription to the comedy channel, I can quickly use analytics to get me content I want to see. I don't want to shift through reams of libraries of content. Our customer wants to learn about that consumer and what they like and use algorithms in real time to figure out what Ed likes and what I like. Content is king and with that big of a library in the world of premium content, you need to be very smart about how you stick above and keep that consumer. For us, analytics are a big play in that.

Rebecca: Yeah, getting the eyeballs for the content is the key and for Patricia, you're flanked by awesome technology up here, when you set out on the Seeso mission - was a bigger challenge the content piece or the technology piece or the revenue profitability piece? When you guys looked out and like there's this huge opportunity, but what's the biggest challenge? What did you feel like it was?

Patricia: That's a great question. We're a content creator, so that comes very naturally to us. I think the way that Seeso approaches the program is very, very different from NBC proper. We invest in a comedian or a piece of talent and often times we'll go straight to series, as opposed to the kind of typical linear model, which is a pilot and then green lighting and that whole thing. We have much more flexibility in terms of our programming, but I think technology is always the backbone of the product, especially when you're doing kind of an OTT or SVOD service. We are using a great company called thePlatform, that Comcast partially owns.

Rebecca: Breaking the hearts of the guys on either side of you, by the way.

Patricia: I know, we've already talked about it, but there's other ways that we're going to work together.

The benefit of a product like Seeso, or any SVOD product, is exactly what Steve was saying, which is the real time analytics - the amount of data that we have and the ability to target based on your viewing behavior and based on your sessions. It just gets so granular and that is the key on how we look at what programming is working, what is the programming that is driving the most acquisition versus retention and we can really kind of slice it that way. It's incredibly important.

Rebecca: Steve, in your world of Ooyala, in that universe of hundreds of publishers are you feeling like technology hurdles are becoming easier for them to handle? We have all the content, we can do technology or are you still trying to win them over? I mean you're always trying to win them over, but from an understanding perspective.

Steve: Yeah, you're always trying to separate out, right? The technology hurdle, again, in the last 18 months has changed dramatically. The bigger hurdle is getting 10 people in a room to agree on what the OTT strategy means and is and we always try to help say the business case needs to be there for that technology. We can do SVOD, TVOD, AVOD, as you said, and these are all the things that get thrown out, but if you don't have a subscriber database already and you're already a freemium content provider, switching it completely to SVOD might not make sense right away.

Rebecca: Well, I think that, like we remind our clients all the time, if you're going to make an app, whether it's an app for Apple or an app for Roku or whatever, there are screens and screens and screens of apps. It's not just that you've chosen your target demographic of female Millennials living in coastal cities, per se, and you think that you're just going to find them if you create an awesome app and you leverage this technology or some others, because there are so many out there. What are you doing to actually market to them and how are you getting them, whether it's social or other tech? I mean Zype, I think, answers some of these questions, right?

Ed: Yeah, and we try to educate our customers who have only worked within a traditional distribution supply chain have relied on others to market. They have relied on others for discovery and promotion and part of it is this ecosystem is teaching these content owners how to market, how to promote, how to discover, how to do CRM. The fact that they can know who their viewers are is a big deal.

It sounds simple, but it's a really big deal for them. We have tools that when someone cancels or we think they're going to cancel, because they haven't logged in a while, it gives them some alerts and then they can plug into MailChimp or some other email service and do something about it; they can use the ecosystem of software that's available out there.

Rebecca: Actionable data.

Ed: Actionable data.

Rebecca: Love actionable data.  

Ed: And do something with it and so the engagement data is really important, but also the subscription metrics and all that stuff is what they really care about, that's revenue. We often talk to our customers about having that business strategy up front, have it decided. If you've never done this before there's budgets you need to put together. While we, I think, are offering a service at a very disruptive price point, there's still going to be costs and marketing and promotion, discovery. This isn't just hit a button and all of a sudden you'll have a million subscribers tomorrow. It's really hard to build subscription businesses of any sort.

Rebecca: Okay. Wait, we're all building within organizations that have to stay profitable, so nobody has the opportunity to just invest in OTT, like it has to make money out of the gate. My last question is, are we living in app world? Thank you, Steve Jobs, for putting us there in the first place.

Ed: I think we are. I think that not only us of a certain age demographic on this panel, but as we're minting more consumers every day, they live in that world. As human beings in the modern era we're all trained to use apps, purchase through apps, subscribe to things, buy things, and I think the genie's out of the bottle on that, so absolutely.

Rebecca: Yup. A universal agreement. Okay, so audience, are there any questions for the panel? I have dozens more.

Audience Question 1: Good morning and thank you all. Interesting panel. Adaora Udojo. Rothenberg Ventures. Question to each of you, thoughts on what incumbents or legacy media companies are doing well with their digital strategy and figuring out how to integrate not only the technology, but also the strategy, as you mentioned, Steve?

Patricia: I've been incredibly impressed. I've only been at NBC for a year, and the fact that NBC and Comcast are investing in companies like Vox and BuzzFeed really speaks to being very open to being part of the digital conversation, which typically you don't see networks participating.

Steve: Probably not a popular thing to say, I don't think any of them are doing it wonderfully. I mean the closest that came out, but also has had tons of issues, HBO and HBO Go and HBO Now. They're on the right track, but even as a consumer, I mean I moved to HBO for one reason and it was Game of Thrones, right? You want your fix, you want GoT, even if it has had glitches, hiccups, all that stuff. I would say they're a leader. Leslie Moonves of CBS, he's out there every day. As a leader position, I would say CBS and every statement Les makes is about it...he gets it. He's going direct to consumer and he doesn't care about what the cable companies are going to make him or make him not do.

Again, in the pragmatic approach, you're looking at subscribers of their Showtime channel and everything else. If you look at the revenues and you look at how they're really doing, there isn't a single, large, top 10 media company, who's absolutely killing it. The guys who are killing it are the digital companies, who may not have had the old way of thinking and there's a number of companies you can talk about, like Toca Boca - if anyone has kids, it’s kids apps. There isn't a kid who 6-12 years old who hasn't downloaded a Toca Boca app, right? Those are the guys who are killing it, because they're not beholden to old approaches and old way of thinking. The sky's the limit still for all of the old time kind of media companies as they are.

Ed: I'd agree. I think that to give some faint praise for a huge media company, who's done something with a popular thing that fans really care about, is the fact that you could buy Star Wars Episode VII through EST on an Amazon Fire device. To me, it was like, okay, that door's opening there, where they let that happen. Disney was a company that sold limited VHS tapes and you can only get that tape for six months back in the day. I think that it will change, but I would agree that none of them are killing it, except for Patricia.

Rebecca: Oh yeah, next question.

Audience Question 2: I'm Michael Cohen, Facebook. Looking out into the future, I'm wondering what you think the role of Live will be in the entertainment market?

Steve: Ooyala was one of the four companies named at the F8 Facebook keynote speaker event, so we were first to market with our live platform being fed directly to Facebook Live. With that said, social is ruling ... Again, 18 months ago people were asking “what are we going to do, what is OTT, we don't even know?” Now it's not good enough just to have a live stream and an app, it's “how do I get it to Facebook and actually capture my audience in Live?” Look at the messaging and change - that's what happened in 18 months! For me the number one, two and three things that come up are apps, which apps, and how to work with different social channels.

Rebecca: The only thing I would add there is live hasn't been able to be monetized until really recently. This is a thing, like we were streaming live, we had the capabilities to stream live, but you couldn't put an ad, you could barely run an ad on the same page as a live stream. There was no way to make money, so we're all bearing these huge bandwidth and hosting costs for live streaming, but you couldn't actually do anything with it. Now, that's totally changing. You can clip out. You can insert brands. You can do products. All of these things.

Ed: We believe live is huge for us. This year we're seeing almost every new deal we do has some sort of live component. Our most popular subscription business customers - these are either broadcast natives, a talent that came from like a Sirius Radio or a morning TV - are now doing their own daily show or politics or news, it's all around live. They're all monetizing it with subscriptions and pass plans, like buy five days of content. We're also seeing sports as being a big driver for live.

Much like ESPN started with niche sports, like darts and bowling and stuff like that. We just live streamed the U.S. men's polo championship and they had 12 drones in the air and feeding it through a video switcher on a truck onsite through our platform and then out. They did really well with it. Live is going to be really big and I think the social platforms are the discovery platforms for live. That's where you're going to engage that audience and then the trick is how do you get them to monetize outside that social platform in a meaningful way?

Rebecca: Or pay for it, right? Consumers will pay for a lot, definitely will pay for a lot of access to live, especially when it comes to sports.

Patricia: We actually have once a month we do a live streaming comedy show from the Barrel House and we just send out a quick email before, and we do see an uptick in engagement and an uptick in subscriptions right around that show. I agree with everyone, live is not going away. I think there is still that draw and so we're going to continue to do that.

Audience Question 3: Hi guys. My name is Brian Storm, I run a small media company called MediaStorm. I'm curious what you guys think about really independent, small niche companies. Can we play in this space? I mean I've got a five, six person company, we do 30 films a year, we have a 150 countries hit our site, but we're not on any of these devices yet, because it's just so hard. Are you guys building a solution for niche, independent media players? I used to work at NBC and things were easier, but now I don't and it's harder. Can you meet our needs?

Ed: We do. Our platform could work for you, so we should talk after the meeting.

Steve: I was just going to answer, for us it's not what we would build. Our platform is for customer of ours like an ESPN or Vice and that kind of thing.

Audience Question 3: The big boys who have big money. We're a small, little pain in the ass.

Steve: There's no question, that is our market, but what I was going to say is, there's so many levels of solutions, you have to find the one and if Ed's company is the one that fits, then that's perfect. You don't want to waste your own time talking to companies like ours, because we will lose money working with company like yours. There are tons of companies on the smaller end that would be a great fit for you, so you that's why you want to kind of get through that.

Rebecca: The great thing about now is everybody can be a creator and everybody can have an app on any device, it's just the reality. Even the smaller influencers, I only have a million subscribers and not a 100 million, there's really room to play there. You're being modest, your content is awesome.

Audience Question 4: Hi, I'm Jacob Loewenstein, I run MIT's VR and AR community, formerly of BuzzFeed. As a "Millennial," I'm a little confused about the use case for live. I get watching live sports and wanting to be a part of that experience you can only consume while it's happening, I get wanting to interact with an influencer, because this is someone I think is cool and I want to talk to that person. But beyond that, the use case for live doesn't really fit, at least for me personally, with how I consume content, especially if you're talking about OTT and Netflix and the idea of like curation. I guess I'm just confused about if I'm scrolling through my social stream am I really going to stop to watch something live outside of those two use cases?

Rebecca: Is that because it feels inconvenient to you?

Audience Question 4: Inconvenient, not curated necessarily in the moment to what I actually want, I can't develop my own sort of lineup of things to watch in a sequence. It doesn't fit some of the other trends, at least I feel like, I'm seeing and how content fits for people like me.

Rebecca: Patricia, first, then I know Ooyala and Steve you have a lot of data around this, and, Ed, you're starting to, but Patricia, when you guys set out to do live, you definitely see engagement.

Patricia: Well the reason we set out to do live is because the service that we created is specific for a comedy nerd, right? While we're very lucky, people who live on the coasts, we have access to comedy clubs, there's this whole kind of middle part of the country that may not necessarily have access that we have, and so what we're seeing is people want to be part of this comedy club. They actually want to be part of the audience, whether it's virtual or actually sitting in the stands watching, or in the audience watching, a comedian perform.

There is an energy exchange that is going on, so that is what the intent behind what we're trying to do with our live comedy stand-up and it seems to be working. It's really interesting to see, again, back to data, but it's really interesting to see the engagement across the country, and exactly to your point, we see on the coast people watching it on demand. They're going to watch it when they're going to watch it, and we see kind of everyone else, they're going to watch it live.

Ed: Imagine if you're a gamer and you use Twitch, you're watching live gaming, taking that same concept, we have customers that are doing live viewing parties, so everyone's kind of chatting and talking about what they're watching and because it's meaningful for them. It's a way to break through the mold, where live used to be only way you could consume a content. In traditional broadcasting it was all live. Now it's sort of an exceptional way to maybe drive some additional marketing or draw or interest from activated consumers that really care about that content.

Rebecca: That's a great question. Are there any other questions?

Audience Question 5: Hi, my name is Christina, I'm the CEO and founder of Seena Books and we are into the consumer behavior measurement. Steve, you were talking about analytics and the importance of this, how are you measuring engagement and what are the current trends that you see on this? For example, some companies are already integrating facial recognition of emotions, for example, to integrate at another level of engagement, and what are you doing in terms of that?

All the analytics we do is within video and we can pull in data from other places, but it's always around video.

-Steve Davis, VP & GM East of Ooyala

Steve: That's a great question. For Ooyala, specifically, it's all within video. All the analytics we do is within video and we can pull in data from other places, but it's always around video. Then within video it's broken out into a million different segments. Is it a live stream? Is it VOD? Is it by app or device? Is it by geography? Then when you get into engagement that opens up an entire other universe of metrics. Engagement to our publishers, though, typically leads back to revenue, it's all about driving the business. The analytics we offer, facial recognition could be the coolest thing in the world and emotional and if it doesn't drive revenue, typically, our publishers don't care. I'm not saying it's not valid for someone else.

For us, they want to tie back in this video did the consumer drop off after we added a mid-roll, and if so, we wanted to keep that consumer all the way to our post-roll. Did we put too many adds in? Should we have no adds in? That's what they're trying to figure out, so when we talk analytics and video, it's in real time, it's algorithms, and it's getting discovery and content recommendation, so in an ad-based world you get that consumer to click one more video and those are all the pennies dimes that add up for our consumers. That's the analytics we're looking at. In a SVOD world you're trying to reduce churn; how do you keep those subscribers on your system? All right, so that's what we mean by analytics. The word analytics is funny, but within video it can take off. We have customers who are click to buy, they're retailers, so the analytics that are important them.

North Face has a video of a guy climbing up and you put your cursor over the backpack, they want to get that backpack to the shopping cart. It's not ad-based, but it's tied to revenue at the end of the day. A lot of it leads back to how do you help your business with video, and it's funny, the live question over here from the gentleman from MIT, our data follows exactly what he just said about, which is Millennials will sign up for VOD, unless it's a BlizzCon event, then they've got to watch that live.

Patricia: Well, I was going to say, I think it's a great question, and it also really speaks to there's no standardization of digital analytics, which is what we're all kind of just circling around. We do the same exact thing. We have our typical KPIs are around engagement and retention and churn and how to mitigate that. But what we're also thinking about, and at Seeso we talk about a lot, is how do you quantify customer delight and how do you get to a better laughter score? We've kind of created this algorithm internally, where we take these four pillars, curation and time to choice and brand equity and shareability, and measure ourselves against a competitive set to see if we can actually get you to laugh more, to laugh better. Again, all this to say that there's this space available where it's not a Nielsen rating, where we're still trying to figure out what is that digital standard.

Rebecca: Thank you. Thank you. All right, we're done. Now, lunch?